What is the real message?
In response to a post I want to add some things that I find wrong about what Thomas Ash presents to you.
The post is HERE
Now, I want to start with only one, because each of the quotes cannot be explained without so much going into it, I will add more later as we go along.
So I begin with addressing this:
"[The Jews] both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets,and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men." 1 Thessalonians 2:15
Firstly i'm not too sure what he is trying to suggest there, but could he be suggesting that Jesus hates Jews? Well guess what......................... Jesus himself was a Jew.
So lets look at the book of Thessalonians message here in more detail:
Paul was addressing the Church in Thessalonia, sending them a letter to praise them for their commitment to the faith. And mentioned that the Jews, killed Jesus, because they were infact Jews who killed him. He did not say that "all Jews" are contrary to all men and did not say what would happen to them, if they would be bannished to hell or anything. His friend and Lord had been killed, what would you say? Do you think you would have said better than Paul?
Paul was a human being.
(don't take it from me, look it all up for yourself)
Now lets look at what the message is to EVERYONE (and he addresses every human as a sinner, not just Jews)
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16
KEY words are that God so loved the "world" meaning everyone, and also "whoever" believes in him should not perish. I do not see where he excludes the Jews.
Lets quote Jesus:
"Blessed are those who Mourn, for they shall be comforted."
"Blessed are those who Hunger and Thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied"
"Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called Sons (and Daughters) of God."
"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven"
"I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" Luke 5:32
“Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone.”
"Why do you call me good? No one is good, but God alone" Luke 18:19
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. "
"LOVE ONE ANOTHER!"
John 15:12
So with just a few quotes, what do you make of Jesus message?
I can't give you everything in one post, so for now I will leave you with this, make of the Bible message what you will, but I encourage you not to only take one persons word as your answer, but to look up all avenues and come to your very own conclusion.
posted by Unknown at 11:30 PM
4 Comments:
From this, I can make out that the core of this particular passage was that the prophet was killed by his own kind.
In that is the message of human danger. In there somewhere is an explanation for why one kind may kill itself. It bears asking, what is the reason that they would kill a prophet who was one of them?
Such a question may lead one to examine what the possible motives could have been. In those possibilities lies a truth of humankind. We actively fear.
So, from that, I don't get that Ash was saying the bible claimed Jesus hated Jews. I couldn't even manage that assertion by that passage. Perhaps Ash thinks as I do that it says something the author of this particular passage felt that something was added to the overall message by naming the Jews.
Likely, it is as you say. Paul probably failed to articulate the core of the "message" properly, instead coloring it with his own experience at the time. I would find this to be an acceptable explanation of why the Jews were named.
5:07 PM
I'd also like to say, that was a pretty easy first examination of Ash, in my opinion.
Personally, I'm looking forward to see if and how you tackle some of the more ridiculous passages for their out-of-context value :D:D
Like this one here:
"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, and seeth among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; and she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and remain in thine house . . . And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her" (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)
To me, that seems like a nice sentiment. Basically, if you're conquering a people, and you see someone who you know would be better off with you than with the guy you conquered (as made obvious by God's delivery), take her in as your own as long as it brings you joy to do so. When you decide you no longer wish to be together, let her go. Do not seek profit from a woman taken in during a war just because she was taken during war.
You think I'm close with my opinion of that passage?
5:16 PM
Ok now for Deuteronomy. I feel that maybe because i'm expressing myself alot here, one might think that I think I know everything, I hate to give that impression, so just take this as my view.
What you came up with in that Deuteronomy verse, is right but to a point, we have to understand the old testament as being "old law" and we can't understand that lifestyle.
Slavery is wrong and was wrong, but in those times of wars and different ways, laws had to be made.
It's wrong to take a woman captive, but a man could marry her if he wanted to and was not allowed to rape her or treat her badly.
The shaving of the head was a practise they used back then, which meant to purify, same as her nails etc, and to make her a part of them or one of them.
This law is talking about marriage, to the slave.
The leaving her part was just like divorce is today, if he was sick of her then let her go, but don't be an ass and sell her.
People could sell slaves back in those days, so they were just making sure that the guy wouldnt do that to his wife.
Sleeping with a woman, made her your wife.
Just adding Deaut 22-25:27
"but if in the field, the man finds the girl who is engaged and the man forces her and lies with her (ie: rape) then only the man who lies with her dies"
26: But you should do nothing to the girl, there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbour and kills him, so is this case"
All in all, I think personally taking the girl captive was wrong, but because this happened in war (a war God did not want if you read the first few books) then they were setting out rules.
Did I make sense? Probably not, but anyone else is free to add their opinion etc.
11:19 PM
Just so you know, i deleted a comment here which was my own bc I didn't even make sense.
Anyway, what I was tryin to say was that I feel Paul was upset with the Jews, and know that he had the knowledge of Jesus teaching, which he taught us all to pray for our enemies.
Then I got to thinking, if Thomas Ash didn't say what I thought he may have been trying to say then oopsy, i'm wrong a lot. However, having said that I feel that he should present more than snippets that would present a distorted view of the Bible, to one who has never read it before.
So i'm just trying to bridge the gap that he left out.
Anyway...
ta ta
1:06 AM
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